10Experience a change in taste perception with Sonic Tasting, Caroline Hobkinson & Anita Stubenrauch


In this episode you are invited to join us for an multi sensory experience. Think Willy Wonka mixed with electronic music. We will be exploring the interplay of sounds with food perception with food anthologist Caroline Hopkinson and creative, apple credo writer, Anita Strebenauch.

We will explore the interrelationship between food and flavor.

We are inviting you to eat special ingredients, listen to custom designed pieces of music, and experience the impact that they have on each other.

Drawing on the latest gastrophysical research into sensory perception, the music uses exact sonic frequencies and musical gestures calibrated to enhance the mouthfeel, flavour and provenance of each ingredient.

We are not manipulating a flavor but modulating and highlighting what is already there. There is no right or wrong. Some sensations will be stronger than others.

So sharpen your ears and explore with us the fascinating relationship between sound and flavor.

Prepare by grabbing one or more of the following ingredients:

  1. Coffee lozenge or a plain cup of coffee
  2. Popping candy
  3. A 2x3” piece of seaweed
  4. Honey lozenge
  5. Gum jaw breaker 6.Glass of water

AND bring plenty of Curiosity

If you’d like to participate but would rather Caroline handles the ingredients, you can purchase a lockdown kit from https://unusualingredients.co/lockdown-kit-1

Think of this as yoga for your mouth.

Feedback from the experience include:

“The experience is like a weird popping candy connection to the universe”. Caroline Hopkinson

“ In Harry Potter there was gilley weed. It felt like the seaweed was a mechanism that let me go underneath the water and let me be ok in this totally foreign environment where I wouldn’t normally be able to breath.“

“Takes you back to your seven year old self, so it is sonic time travel” Caroline Hobkinson

Get in touch with:

Caroline Hobkinson www.carolinehobkinson.com or https://unusualingredients.co. on Instagram @caro_hobkinson.

Anita Stubenrauch Linkedin or at www.causeeffectcreative.com or www.makeandbelieve.co

This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. <a href="https://anchor.fm/app">https://anchor.fm/app</a>

Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/hihellosura/message Support this podcast: <a href="https://anchor.fm/hihellosura/support" rel="payment">https://anchor.fm/hihellosura/support</a>


*This Transcript is Autogenerated

Hi. Hello. Some of you have been asking me about how I create my podcast. As you quite fancy making one of your own. You said I've been meaning to do this for a while, but is it complicated? Do I need to invest a whole bunch of software? Well, I've actually been using anchor by Spotify since the beginning, and I really love it because it has everything that I need in one place.

I can edit and record my podcast from my phone or my computer. I actually use my iPad. And when hosting an anchor, after that, I can distribute my podcast on to any listening platform like Spotify, apple podcasts, and much, much more. It has everything that I need in one place. And the thing that I love about it is that it's also totally free.

So if you're interested, download the anchor app or go to anchor dot F M to guest.

Welcome and join me today on the Hpodcast, where I decode and deconstruct the stories, secrets, and skills of the creators of our time. If you are looking to challenge the status quo and get new perspectives, join me as I share with you practical advice that you can use to impact your life and help those around you today.

Hey there. Welcome to the hi. Hello. Sorry. I'm your host, Sue Al Naimi on this particular show, we are inviting you to a Sonic tasting experience. So think of it as a mouse experiment, Willy Wonka meet Alec Tronic music. So we are going to be working with Caroline Hopkinson, who is a food and drink anthropologist who was on a previous show and needs our Steuben RA, who is a creative and writer, who was also on a previous show who talks about crafting yourself as the hero and your own story.

On this particular episode, we're going to be looking at the relationship between sound and flavor perception. So it's very exciting. And we wanted to invite you to also have this experience. So if you would like to participate, we are going to be inducing a few key ingredients that you may or may not have to hand.

The ingredients are coffee, so plain coffee or a coffee lozenge. If you can manage it, popping candy seaweed, honey lozenge, as well as a gum jaw stopper. And I will have all of this information in the show notes. And equally, if you would just like to have all of these ingredients packaged for you, you can get them@unusualingredients.com.

So without further ado, I will invite Caroline and Anita to introduce themselves before we get into this massive experience. My name is Caroline Hopkinson. I'm a food artist and food anthropologist, and I'm obsessed by different eating rituals, how people interact with food and the senses and how all of this comes together in order to create this amazing Cobra, amazing experiences.

So I'm all about experiences and, um, yes, I'm really excited to be at your show today and to be here with any task. I'll take a, that is my cue to introduce myself. I'm Anita, Steven RA. Um, I am just privileged to be a part of this amazing, uh, mouth experiment, um, mouth and sound experiments. I'm a writer creative in Murphys, California building an event and retreat space called the land of Macon belief.

Um, and even if I had tried, I don't think I could've made believe my way into the experience. I'm about to have. Yay. Well welcome. Both of you, and it's really exciting to have both of you on previous shows and I've read it. I was spoken to as being super excited to listen to both of your shows and your words of wisdom.

So, um, and I was actually talking to somebody about what we're about to do today when I went to the coffee shop and he, uh, his daughter cannot wait to listen to this episode. So without further ado, Caroline, what are we going to be doing? So I'm really excited to introduce you to unusual ingredients, which is a real pet project of mine for two years, with a together with Dr.

Thompson bow. And he is an amazing musician on experimental music. And we were researching for the last two years, how sounded flavor really correspond to each other and really brings out different flavor notes and actually brings out different music notes as well. It's really interesting how, even when you say flavor notes, you know, like it's, there's so much in the language, like the high notes and sweet notes of each are high notes as well.

So for the last few years I've been researching, um, the impact into the interrelationship between food and flavor and the outcome of this. It's actually just, I'm really excited to actually share this. It's this lovely. Which is an album. So if you open it up, um, it's a proper album, how they used to have, but you can put on a record player and the ingredients as well.

So we focused on different ingredients. We came across the ingredients rather than dishes, which is really important as well because dishes carry so many different memories and associations with them as well. So we want to keep it quite pure. So sometimes, you know, like when I'm mentioning popping candy or coffee, sweet, or these say really exact, or if you said roasted marshmallows as well.

So they really did into memories and the feeling of childhood, and they have very specifically, um, composed pieces of music, some pieces of music to go with them. These are the ones that are going to listen to today. So we took a little selection of my favorite goodies in matters. Well, to highlight it all.

So you have the sound and flavor. With a special, special, um, they're quite an electronic sound pieces because when it comes to anything too melodic, we have so many own associations. I was like, oh my God, I hated that holiday in Italy or I don't know. So, so it's really like, it's important to keep it pure and free of associations, um, in the area of, because every there's so much food and there's so many ingredients, so where did we start?

So we focused on three areas. So you have flavor flavor. Um, and the flavor modulation, which goes from better to sweet, we have mouth feel and texture, which is inherent in food as well. And then we have TBWA. So for instance, for one of the experiences for today's, the seaweed seaweed is heavily linked in the habitat of the sea.

So you obviously have a provenance and terroir, and it's really interesting to describe it almost how you would describe a delicious wine, you know, it can only be made from the thing and almost anchoring and honoring the natural provenance of the food item as well. So we have provenance mouth feel and texture and flavor.

Um, so that's, that's how these ingredients came in and obviously be trying to, you know, like showcase as many ingredients as possible and different ways of how music can actually highlight. Create a change in your perception of the taste. If I can't physically do anything to the inside of your mouth. So please, if you have this dose anywhere, ideally close your mouth.

When you, when you have the food item in your mouth and you're listening to, it's almost like in a good yoga class, you know, soften your gaze, ideally close your mouth because your sense of sight, people end up staring at something. Because as if the answer is there, it's like, it's not above the sense of side so that the show really happens inside your mouth.

Oh, the show happens inside your mouth.

So the full week I needed to, do you have any questions for Caroline before we get into it? No, I don't think so. I think I'm, I'm just ready to try this. I have no idea what to expect. I'm like stoked.

We have the first item is a coffee. Sweet and the opposite. You confused. If you don't have a coffee this week, you could use coffee, ideally black coffee at home. We use Holter coffee sweets because they have a certain, um, you know, thickness and size because the music is ideally composed for the average lasting estimated consumption time.

If you place it straight onto your tongue and rotated clockwise and slowly, obviously don't bite or chew and try to really give it that mindfulness and that attention to try to really move it around your mouth clockwise. And ideally it should last as long as the coffee, if it can break off, as soon as you get a reaction as well, because we obviously want to get through as many ingredients as possible today.

So without much further do you place it on top of your time? Really don't buy it and shoot, and just, yeah.

any reaction

at first it seemed like the music was making, it tastes sweeter, like the, the sort of the higher, the notes and it, like, it sort of took away some bitterness and then it made it seem like the music was making it melt, uh, and become more chocolatey flavored, which was just really interesting because I don't, I don't drink coffee.

Because for me, the flavor is just kind of too bitter. Um, so to have like the sweet and sort of roundness, like around it, like, and melty, chocolaty, goodness, like was like, oh, maybe I do like coffee

at like, helping off that. I mean, it's said it's based, um, th this, this music pieces of based on a study by professor Charles Spencer part of Oxford university, and I worked with him. It's about, you know, how a high-frequency really brings out the sweetness. And that's so great on coffee because especially at those coffee sweets, because they're, they lie exactly in the middle, on the flavor wheel between sweetness and bitterness.

And you know, like that viscosity of you're not chocolatey like thicken, like the thickness and the likeness. So you can really push it from that sweetness into the bitterness and you can take it forwards and backwards. And the beauty of physio fat as, as well as. Different flavors in there as well, that it's reversible as well, because obviously we are not changing anything inside your mouth.

It's just your perception of off the, off the coffee as well that, you know, like the high notes really bring out that sweetness. And a lot of people who don't like coffee, they take actually, you know what? I like coffee, it's really interesting. And then the darkness, it brings up chocolate. He brings up bitterness and a heaviness as well.

I mean, when, you know, doc Wadeye comes onto the screen, we have a dark menacing sown and we have the good person coming. So sound is always used to almost prompt us, you know, like to set a little habitat, to paint the room, you know, to paint, to prepare the stage. So it is really amazing how that anchors our taste perception.

This. That's been laughable. We have the, um, the robust, do we want to do that one or do we want to, no, there's just the reverse adjusted the idea. The beauty of this is a, because you're not changing the taste itself, but it's inherent in the, in the sweetest gesture. And the beauty of this is you can go back and forth and back and forth.

But I think we should go. I mean, that's, I mean, I think Sarah knows this. One of my favorite ingredients can be as popping candy and popping candy for me is really beautiful as well, because sound, it's a bit like the sense of scent it's really bypasses any rational thought and it really can transport us back to a childhood memory.

And it's something so aloof and funny and lightheartedness popping candy, which I really liked because we all know it from a childhood memory. But what I like as well as like here, we actually creating this. Community together as well and overlaying it, hopefully over the south. Well, so it's, I get that using your body as an instrument and, and, you know, being really playful, maybe opening and closing your mouth.

And obviously you have the internal to a general sound and the external sound as well as to see what of the, of the seats feeds. Um, and yeah, I love popping candid. Is there like a, uh, just, uh, a way to approach eating this? Do I just kind of pour in or approach is to, um, who are as much as possible humanly possible.

It's like, wow. Okay. I'll just play right now.

I had some, those, that's where I bought my habits. I loved your reaction to that because there's something so yet magical and childlike wonder about it. It's like the idea that tells me I can almost project you're in, like, you're in a, child's like former version of yourself onto your faith is although I have known you as a child and it was wild.

Like, so I've been listening to mythos, um, like a retelling of all these Greek myths by Stephen Fry. And it's so good. And there's like the section of the beginning where he's talking about like chaos and the void and like, you know, the things becoming and like the experience of holding the popping camp.

And my mouth with that music, it literally felt like the promo primordial use like of things becoming and like into being in life and things was like happening inside my mouth. It was, yeah. I love that because the inner, the inner sound mixed with the outer sound, it almost creates more than the sum of its parts.

It's it creates something that isn't there before. And you suddenly experienced your own body as a sound, as part of, you know, like, I mean, I don't wanna overdo, but like it does feel like a weird popping candy connection to the universe. Yeah. Yeah. I was not expecting that.

I was expecting it pop and candy connection to the universe.

Right. There's something new to do that. So that's why I love popping candy because it's something, I mean, obviously I love food because it's really accessible and really democratic, but weirdly, you know, like your reach with food, something so deeper and different ideas. And especially as something as, you know, as, you know, mundane and everyday and childlike and almost, you know, silly as popping candy.

And I love that. And like, you know, you come from popping candy to the universe and Brutus and Stephen Fry's idea of chaos theory. So, and it made me want to dance actually. Like I suddenly one of the, like having like secularly throughout my whole life. Yeah. It was really inspiring. And I love that you said that we could put as much as possible, like in mouth.

Cause like when did I like have permission to do that? So it really did tap into this like childlike wonder for me. I'm like looking inside to see what else I have any left so I can have more,

I think poplin can be definitely it is, but it's that sound. And I think the way that it practice, but it's amazing how much like having the right sound, I mean, do listen to other music period as well, having the right sound, really, it makes it pop even more and it makes your mouth salivate even more. So I think that's really interesting because here you have obviously the flavor, but this is very much a play on texture and mouthfeel.

So you know, where the coffee sweet. They have the flavor and here, this is about, it's really another take on mouth feel and flavor, and actually using your own body as part of the music as well. So weirdly, although we are so far apart, we had this kind of communal sound experience because we were actively creating the sounds as well.

So I find that always really interesting as. But the way that you said to like open our mouth and close them, it becomes like a siren, you know, of modulation for the sounds and the change, my experience. But when I like, you know, kind of opened my eyes and see you guys for a second, and then I went back in, it was just, um, very much

when you were developing this, were you like in the proximity with these sound artists or were you working at a distance? Like we're at a distance right now? No, we were actually very lucky too, because they were. So that's three hours on the train. So we had a lot of sessions where we just sat together.

That's why we have this weird parameters, like estimated consumption time. And it was about trial and error and trial and error while being in some booze and eating a lot of food and literally a lot of food and say like, actually, this isn't like ginger is fast and this is the mouth feel and trying to kind of to modulate that as well together.

So that was great as well, but that's why we have the idea of the amount and how you eat it. It's really important as well. So, um, because the pieces are designed around a really specific, you know, some piece as well. So, I mean, the next one is really interesting because I already mentioned mouth feeling with the popping candy, but it's, um, this is a toasted seaweed.

So TOSA's DB does, obviously it has its natural habitat, its provenance and its natural way is, um, uh, in the seas it's very maritime Matea we try to really create a. A little story. So the idea that you are right above the sea, you take it in and you see everyone who's ever, you can see it. It's really dried sticks to the top of your tongue inside it's, but then perceived, we dive right in beneath the sea and then we come back out again.

So if ideally, if you've placed it forward or folded once over and then place the entire seaweed onto your mother tongue and let it dissolve on its own accord. So try not to chew it or anything. So let it dissolve and listen to the sound.

are you guys to come back up again? Because it tells you, it really takes you on that story. You're outside, you're fried beneath the waves. And then it's that feeling of almost drowning, you know, like you're in there and if there's so much water and it's like a cave, you have to wait until you guys come up again to give you that moment of, um, re-emergence so it's a little here.

We try to tell a little story as well with it, but while anchoring it deeply in its Marine team terroir as well. So in Harry Potter, there's like, uh, God, I'm not going to remember the, I think it was the goblet of fire. Um, Gilly weed is like a thing that he takes, so he can go into the lake and he can like breathe under.

I felt like this seaweed was a mechanism that allowed me to go underneath the water and be okay with being in this totally foreign environment where I normally wouldn't be able to breathe. Um, and as I, as like S like saliva moisture, like gathered in my mouth, like there was even like this sort of like waving of the seaweed inside my mouth, the way that I would imagine that it would like wave as the motion of the ocean.

Um, and that was wild. And as we, like, we surface again, like what was left of the seaweed was like moving and clumping and sort of gathering in places the way that it would like getting stuck to people's legs or like, you know, caught on a twig or like washed up on shore. Um, that was, yeah. Yeah. I love it.

Yeah, it's one of my favorite as well, because it really hear the sound, something that is so dry and sticking to the top of your mouth. And as soon as you have it anchored in, in, in all of this, see, and hear the sound of the sea, the saliva starts flowing and it's, it's really placed with it. And then it feels like that sound makes the saliva inside your mouth really flow.

It's really weird. It's like I had some records where people say like, it's almost so strong, it's almost disturbing. It's like, that'd be like, you feel like drowning something suffocated. There's so much water and moisture in your mouth. There's not so much more moisture. If anything, there's less moisture in your mouth because it's sorted seaweed, but it's, it's again, that perception of moisture.

And it's, um, I really like playing with, uh, here with the mouth feel and the terroir together as well. So mean. I just felt like I was dropping into this deep meditation. It felt so. I just, it was pleasant and I was sad. And then finally I went on the Wolf site and it just was some mugged into this relaxed state.

Like my smile was so visceral, like my cheeks, so relax. Okay. What could be like part of my routine? I'm like imagining all of this use cases for this, right. I'm thinking about yeah. Like fab and you do this with sushi. Like we've played.

You could have QR codes, which are, I mean, I worked before with Sainsbury's as well. QR codes are tech because the great thing is we carry an amazing sound piece device with us at all times. And what I love about Bluetooth, it can almost start playing it without you having to actively engage with it. So you could be.

Somewhere and having the headphones in as well. Um, and I love, I love all the applications for that as well, especially now that we are more digital based idea that enhancing our consumer or just our experience of life and being together. And it's amazing because we are just having a digital experience, which I, you know, in essence is very two dimensional, but we're having something almost metaphysical because we're using so many of our sensors, we're eating the same food we're having this.

So I think it's amazing about breaking that, you know, like that fifth or sixth digital wall as well. The idea of almost it's, it's more real than being real, sitting around a table and just having, you know, like the increased. So I think it's really interesting how, how you can actually use certain elements to have this communal experience that is often not given when you're having a digital or virtual version of something.

So that's, I find that really interesting plus obviously just modulating flavors, very much to your own liking the idea of. You know, like, as you said, you like coffee, I like coffee. Sweet. Maybe that's every time you go into stuff and coffee shop you'll have a certain frequency you can download, which is calibrated to your flavor profile or preference, or even like being able to use all these tools to like prompt or trigger an experience like this last one made me almost feel like, um, I had listened to an album before there was like a shamonic journey.

So like drums and like, uh, like a guided experience for like, what's it going look for? Like when you are in this meditative state? Oh my God. Like how rich that meditative experience can be. Like, you're talking about Sarah, just using tools like this, then like your thoughtfulness and expertise and like collaboration with these artists.

Like what incredible experiences you can create. Yeah, more meaningful experiences as well, because an experience often is played at you and, you know, from a base two dimensional side, but the idea that you are forced to engage, you know, like so much that you are the sound when the popping candy you're pried off the sound.

So you're part of this communal experience. So I think that's, that's really interesting. I mean, one thing having talked to you earlier, the idea of mindfulness and honoring, you know, where items come from. So it's really interesting because our next item is a honey lozenge. So this is a honey lozenge. We just very much, um, Sue this.

And again, because we tried different honeys as Sue, this for us was the right shape and the right packaging and the right thing, the idea that it had a liquid center. So you needed a moment of, uh, you know, that. Yeah. You know, like that breakthrough moment that you break through something and then you burst through, into a really soft liquid gooey center.

And yeah, this one is, if you can see it's actually wrapped inside the time taking from the apiary. So we went up to an apiary and the north of England and recorded the sounds and the beat of the beehive. So the busy, busy bees are really busy and they spent a lot of time harvesting every single drop of honey in order to make honey.

So I think it's about honoring the work that goes into certain food items as well, and mindfulness, and the idea of hyper locality. So obviously this is a suit us, but yet at the time, which you have wrapped around is from that very apiary. So I think it's really nice to have that connection as well.

They're from sound and, and items around there. So, um, yes. So should we just go, go into, into the, before.



Yeah. I grew up having the lulls in jails. When I was ale. This was a varies of an experience.

Not accompanied by, by beehives. No, Y I mean, you do usually associated with some sort of relief, but there's this notion of like, I'm having this. Cause I, you know, I have a bad cough or, you know, this is just, I felt like I was there. The Hills are alive skipping through this people. We managed to have the sound difference.

As you break broke through the outer casing to the liquid center, or did you manage to coincide with a sound inside the beehive? Because you know, like we start outside and then we going inside. So it's a bit like if you're scared of peace, it becomes for a moment quite claustrophobic, but obviously that's, that is to coincide with it, you know, breaking through, through the gooey center there as well.

So I love the honey piece. It was the, you know, like you have a lot of flavor in, in honey, a pissy that they're split honey and eucalyptus in there. Um, which is really interesting, um, as a flavor note, and then you have proceed the mouthfeel, the idea of something that is just sweet and sticky, and then you have the glory, you know, the change and in, in, in viscosity and the thickness.

And then you have, as you have the provenance as well, and then hyper provenance, the idea that honoring the bee that is making it while I'm tasting it. So to create that weird, not weird, but almost spiritual, mindful, very much like a mindfulness committee.

I don't think I broke through to the gooey center yet. So approximating it on peoples, you know, like, um, you know, some people are very like, they, they, they like it like impatience and then patient level. So one of the parameters was, you know, like the human and patient's level is so high that at some point people do, you know, put more tension and pressure to, towards a sweetness.

I think it's happening now.

Put the buzzing back on you on that for a second.

Yeah. The experience that I was having with it was, um, like the time, like earthy element, like connected me back to the work of the bees. It felt like. And then like, um, I interpreted the. Um, I, for me, it was like more restful there's like a restful cycle somewhere where it was like, uh, like work, work, work, and restaurants, dress, dress, work, work, work, work, and restaurants, restaurants.

And like, I was just, um, it was like a sort of hanging with the bees, like in that state of mind, negatively dip in and out for me. Yeah. Because you can't end up flying out and then you come back in and obviously that's what they do all day. But I think it's really nice. I mean, something as simple as the sound of a beehive to actually have these recordings and the taste of something, how the taste of provenance and proximity, and almost the idea of them picking some or creating the vape to tie to music teaching, and actually almost having that really kind of intimate connection, like obviously cross species, whether it's a human or not, but in that case, Like the idea of, I think that's really interesting to almost bridge that gap of time as well, because it does take quite a, you know, like it's almost like a Sonic time-lapse as well.

Right? Absolutely. So, yeah, that's like the honey for me, it's like, it's something that brings the two together. So the last one we have is a pissy. The one that really throws you right back onto the school playground, you know, whether you had a good time or a bad time. So they're like, oh cool. And I was told off for chewing gum.

Um, this is a perfect bubble gum Gobstopper. I really liked them because they are, you know, like straight out of Willy Wonka's chocolate factory, something that is something that, you know, this is something more manageable, but try to break through the outer casing and try to blow a bubble with it as well, which is, it's literally taking a straight back to your seven year old self on the school playground.

So let's go back in time. So it's a bit of a Sonic time traveling. We're doing here as well with a magic pill. All right, let's do this.

I'm really bad at blowing a bubble, but I will try one.

I was great.

It's. I mean, I love the fact that it's definitely throws you

and then like popping through and hearing the kids play as well. But I mean, it's so sour, I'd love, like, you know, your face is crunching up and at times I'm like, should I warn you guys? It's just really sour. It's not just a little bit it's, you know, it's little face, but I like that almost that there, that shot, like there smells like you put it in your mouth and there's just so much happening.

Like, and, you know, because I like healthy eating, but there's some things that just out there they're just manipulate monument. But I like that moment. It has those two acts that the big, hard shell, and then the moment you break through, and it's almost a cathartic relief as well. Oh, here I am.

I really felt like I had accomplished something when I got through. Yeah, very cathartic. It's almost like, you know, like the equivalent enough, seven year old organisms,

I have the best from stats from this conversation. The, for me, it was like the there's so much like bigness about that experience where like the size of the Gobstopper, especially like relative to the size as a child's mouth. Right? Like it's like the whole mouth. And then like, just trying to move it around, like as the flavors start to like reveal your face is like all the scrunch and like chewing it's like, it's like in a sense, it's just like, everything is so intense.

That it felt like being a kid that age, like experiencing something for the first time that it is at like a level 11 and like as adults, as adults, like how often do we get to experience anything that like, even approximates an 11, if that's like a, like a first or even something we've revisited. So that is delightful.

It feels, you must always the size of that. It's not that big, but we use it almost amplifies or highlight, amplifies. Everything is amplified because the flavor, you mean it is sour. And I hate to have them without the sun, but weirdly with the sun and it's more sour, it's bigger. It's the whole thing. It's like, it's it almost sound amplification as well.

That sound really kind of brings you back because suddenly you do have that. I mean, obviously everyone has different memories from childhood. So we like really, really carefully that happened, you know, like children playing outside because for some people that had a traumatic experience or they're not allowed to chewing gum, they were told off.

But it is really interesting idea because when we launched it, we had this big concert hall as well in London and you're not allowed to blow bubbles. And then we're like, all these people dress up blowing bubbles in a big auditorium. So it goes against. Nature because he feels so childlike, but anything grown up, you're not supposed to, you know, like chew gum at each other and that loud mastication sound and the blowing the bubble.

I love that. It feels really incredibly naughty Gobstopper. I think this is the transformative nature of all these ingredients. Like, you know, like, like, like a folk POS, I have a golf stopper really, you know, as an adult, I can do whatever I want when I want, but then all of a sudden I'm like, Ooh, this is good.

You know? And I think it's really powerful as well, using the census in order to unlock it like a former self and, you know, to use it in. Time traveled to it. Something that we are where we are not that cynical. And we are bypassing so much. If our rational thought that, you know, within the creative process, these are always things that stop us.

And we are editing so many fun ideas out and actually just being really raw. And then just that 11 and actually trying to seek that, you know, as they need to assess the 11 hour, no, because often it's like, it's okay. And we learn to compromise, but every most one mouthful should be like that 11 in an experience when it comes to sound or when it comes to food or when it comes to human interaction, you know, we should always seek for that 11.

This has been an 11 for me. I like feel so like honored to be a part of this experience with you guys. I would like never, never have an experience like this. Like I. Yeah, amazing. Well, we should, we should continue.

No, it just, I think it's really beautiful to share it as well with, with people, because I think so much about sharing food and obviously, you know, having this research for two years and now bringing it out in the open, actually testing it out. So I'm assuming this is after test trial and error and trial and error, but nowadays dashes to see him and, you know, having some feedback and comments that feel very much like you're trying to achieve.

It's wonderful as well, but I think it only comes alive when you have that community together. I thought we've been really enjoying hearing the stories of reflection, you know, so I haven't experienced Alan to get to hear, you know, your description anytime, just like so much when the Terra, you know, ambulance and CA.

Um, like the story behind the story, Caroline, and then just like stitching it together. So I, I, I kind of want to sit there as all the people have these experiences and, and hear what they have to say about it. , it'd be lovely to have as well from other. Yeah. And I, like, I find myself like sort of sad right now, like that there's not another one and like wanting a way to like, when I'm in need of inviting a little 11 or like a certain state of mind or experience into my life, like, as I'm about to do something creative, like a way that I could just have a, a sense of taste experience, like to prompt it, to trigger, to launch that.

So I'm, I'm hoping that more is to come with this, um, Yeah, not everyone should always carry a little violent popping candy, remind yourself just how powerful things are. And then like in our day to day, you know, like something as simple, just to snap yourself out of the everyday, you know, the front door when I enter yeah.

Is so much of that is the human impatience as well. You know, like people FAQ and then suddenly they just kind of come on at that crunch and just letting bursting through the barrier. And I think it's amazing how much emotion there is when it comes to food and how you can, you know, like play and manipulate, not manipulate, but modulating with sound and that way as well, because we're not manipulating anything you're just highlighting and maximizing things that are there and it's pushing them and unearthing things that are inherently there, like in the MCU.

So Caroline, the people who would like to get in touch with you, um, or actually be able to access some of these ingredients that they didn't want to source them themselves the best way for them to do that. Well, we have a website for our, for our things, which just unusual ingredients.com. So you can either buy the album or you can buy the knock down kits.

And otherwise you can obviously always, you know, whether it's face time, Instagram, or contact me in any conversation about food and flavor, any food experiences always highly welcomed. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll have all of those in the show notes, uh, and I need to happen. People get in touch. Um, LinkedIn is a really good way.

Uh, you can also find my website, um, cause effect creative.com. Um, I think there's a contact form thing there, but I've had people reach out to me on LinkedIn since the podcast show that we've done and I've had some really wonderful conversations. So I invite more of those using well, I'll have all of those in the show notes and I am so grateful for this experience.

I can't wait to continue sharing it with people. So thank you. Thank you for having us and sharing that with me here. Well, listeners as always thank you for joining. And as I just mentioned, all of the information will be in the show notes. And if you enjoyed the show, please do not hesitate to rate it on the mediums that be until next time.