38Closing the Joy Gap: Conscious Consumerism & Sustainability with Maxim Gelmann and Caroline Hobkinson


Today, we have a very special episode for you all. We are joined by Maxim Gelmann and Caroline Hobkinson, two experts in their respective fields. Caroline is a Behavioral Anthropologist and Food Multisensory Expert who has been exploring the connections between technology, food, art, and our senses. If you're a fan of our show, you might remember her from previous episodes. And, Maxim is the Chief Stroodle at Stroodles Eco Tableware, a company that is on a mission to make our everyday items as eco-friendly as possible. Together, they've just launched Stroodled, a Sustainable Mindset Audit that aims to close the "Joy Gap" in sustainability. Maxim and Caroline will talk about conscious consumerism, the challenges of changing habits, and how the Stroodled audit measures your positive impact. They'll also delve into how companies can use the audit to show their commitment to sustainability and the environment, and how we as consumers can make small changes to live our best lives in a more sustainable way. In this episode, you'll discover: -The "Joy Gap" in sustainability and how Stroodled is closing it by measuring your positive impact. -The importance of conscious consumerism and how small changes can make a big difference. -How companies can show their commitment to sustainability and the environment through the Stroodled audit. -The role of positive reinforcement in promoting sustainable living, and how to manifest sustainability in your daily life. -The connection between happiness and sustainability, and how you can live your best life while being mindful of the planet. So, get ready to learn, be inspired, and discover the joy of sustainability with Maxim and Caroline on the Hihellosura Show So, grab your coffee cup, sit back, and get ready to learn about the modern approaches to happiness and sustainability. Who knows, before you know it, you might just be reading Shakespeare with a Stroodles top hat on! Get in touch with Maxim Gelmann and Caroline Hobkinson on Linkedin, and on instagram.

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*This Transcript is Autogenerated

hey there and welcome to the HiHelloSura Show I'm your host Sura ANaimi. Today you're joined by Maxine Gelman and Caroline Hawkinson. Caroline is an experienced behavioral anthropologist, food mal sensory expert who is investigating the interrelationships of tech, food, art, and the senses.

You might remember her from some of our other shows. I'd really recommend you going back and giving those a. We're also joined by Maxine. He is Chief Strudel officer at Strudels Eco Tableware, and they're saying that they want to make everyday items as eco-friendly as possible once strudel at a time. He has over 14 years of international strategy consulting and operations experience, and he has also been a mentor and ambassador in various.

He and Caroline have teamed up and have just launched Strudel, a sustainable mindset audit, which is on a mission to change and close the joy gap in sustainability. So Caroline and Maxim, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. Thanks. It's such a joy to have you both here . So, We're really excited about the new.

I think it is something that's much needed, so yes. Yeah, I'm just super excited just even in looking at the tone and looking at, um, The language that you're using. I just feel like it's really cutting through, uh, a lot of the noise and, um, a lot of what we're sort of used to seeing in the marketplace when it comes to sustainability.

So, um, if we just step back a minute, like, what was the inspiration for its inception and, you know, you can go back as, as long as you, you know, as far back as you want, you know, if you wanna start from the age of five, but, uh, where would you like to start? Well, I think, well it's obviously like born with that whole idea again.

I guess, well, we can proudly say we're not pro hardcore eco warriors and like we're not Greta and, uh, David Edinburgh. Nothing wrong with it, but I think, um, it's, we, we are aware, we are conscious consumers and I mean, I like speaking for myself again, like, um, I. Like the changes are visible. I mean, like for me, the whole strudels idea as, as the, the core company started from like the whole, like that I've been with a di have a diver and like obviously I've seen that whole world changing and it just, at some point just.

You just wanna do something. And then back then, uh, I saw a tubular pasta being used for fun. Uh, so my first product was a pasta straw. And then it was just like the, the whole idea of it, like how easy and simple it can be. And I think with like now fast forward all, all this time and like coming together, I think it's like, obviously it's just this mission of like, as you said, correctly, it's all at the moment, it's all doom and gl.

Uh, the communication, it's some like, well, it's, people are tired of it. Uh, some sustainability fatigue. Um, but then also everyone wants to do something where they don't know how, uh, everyone feels that they, they're not big enough, um, to, and that their, their small changes won't matter. And I think this is then emphasized by the fact that only the big companies only talk about the big stuff, which again, is a vicious circle because they only talk about the big stuff.

Because, uh, if they talk about the small stuff, everyone's gonna point out, uh, all the stuff they're doing wrong. So it's kind of that vicious circle, which leads to, uh, to the common opinions about sustainability. And also sustainability is normally like, well, you need to change your life. There's lots of stereotypes, all basically a negative undertone.

And that's why exactly why. Kind of partnered up to, to change that and to bring some joy, uh, to the topic and some positivity. Yeah. But it started from a conversation because when I met Maxim, I really liked his energy. I liked the positivity and the idea that actually there is agency and you can change stuff and yeah.

And it's just something that as well as like those pasta straws are like such an em emblematic of that, that feel good thing. It's like you could obviously argue why do you need to have this straw in the first place, but it's not about changing. Changing the habit, but slightly adapting it into a different world.

And, and I think what it is as well, by doing this, you become a broadcaster and adapter as well by having these extraordinary experiences where you think, this is brilliant, I'm talking about it, I'm empowered, and I might then make other changes in my life. Because a lot of, a lot of those things are so, Um, negative and I feel like, oh, it doesn't make any difference anyway.

And do I wash the yogurt cup or not? Or do I make that journey or not? But actually, when I'm already doing this, let's make that so much fun that it becomes a real laugh mark, like a real drench with joy. And I am sure I want to showcase it, not because I feel good about it, I want to post about it. I wanna make a TikTok over it, like an inces.

I wanna tell my neighbor about it. And I think that. It's, it's amazing. It's like a domino effect. And I think this is how, and you become an incubator about sustainability without having to be the, the, the almost more radical version of, you know, gluing yourself to the road, which is obviously, it's a wonderful way of expressing yourself, but I think a lot of us draw the line for it, and I think.

Especially when it comes to now the financial crisis. I think what is really great that people say like, oh, we don't, before that people said it was a bit like a lifestyle choice. Is that Goop stylist? Like, oh, it's, everything is organic. It's only for people who can afford it. But weirdly, actually, if you think about it and apply that thinking, it's the cheaper choice, not, not offsetting your expensive carbon footprints, but maybe thinking about, do I need to buy it in the first place or not?

It comes really towards it. I think it's. Like it's very urgent and very important I think at the moment to think about it, that it's almost like the only solution, and I think a lot of companies. They, they would approach it initially. We don't have time for this. That seems like a luxury sparkle on, so having worked with bigger companies, like even I'm naming them Google, I was shocked by how the events are run.

It's like even when it comes to Google Earth Day and, um, people have goodie bags on their seats with lots of not recyclable, not not biodegradable items in there. It's like, I, I thought the disconnect was so big. And then I said like, Oh, when it comes to events, we don't have time for this and we have to obviously reinvent the wheel.

It's like, do you, so it's really interesting. So I thought actually there's a huge market gap when it comes to events and companies. So, because obviously you have e s G ratings, but it's more like, what is your, what is your mindset ordered? And I think a lot of consultants do this in, in the fact that a feel good and wellness ordered.

And it's really interesting how many people hide behind those tangibles, like a carbon footprint or we can offset it. It's like no one knows what a carbon footprint is. And then I thought, I can't speak up for that because I don't know what a carbon footprint is in this way. And then, you know what? I don't know, but I'm actually quite nerdy when it comes to scientific things, as you know.

So if I don't wanna engage with it, I think no one else wants to engage with it. Maybe it's something that it's used to almost excuse yourself that I can pace someone else to offset my carbon footprint. So, um, yeah, it came from a conversation we had with, uh, the joy gap, something that allows us to still consume, but in a very positive way.

Um, but I think, yeah, a lot of the sustainability message, what I mentioned before is as well is, is that ju Christian worldview is that, oh, I can be naughty, I can do something a bit more naughty, but I. Said it. I can pay another company by simple click and then I can do this. But I think it doesn't really work in our modern time because I think we are post.

Pandemic. We are actually now in a financial crisis. No one does God in that weird, like, in, in that way. That is that shaming God, o o o, of the way that it's like, oh, I've been naughty, then I'm gonna have to buy myself out of that. It's like, it feels like a medieval monastery implication. And I think. It's really freeing to think, okay, what kind of mindset do we do for our modern time?

And I think we are sold on the idea we're worth it. It's all about fun and it's very experiential. And it's e everything is, we are an experienced culture and not a, not a like a service culture. And I think when we make those experiences extraordinary, they stay with us. Hmm. And we wanna talk about them and, and they have a lot of value.

And that's why brands and, and as well missions, I think have a lot to offer. So when we think about, I love this so much and this really deeply resonates, um, you know, just kind of. The, the term, um, everything is doom and gloom, you know, in terms of, and that being a motivator, when you think about, you know, like nlp, it's like you can either be driven by fear or you can be going towards something.

Uh, but also just kind of using the language and the motivations that we already have inherently as humans, like, you know, we like joy as an encapsulation. So, um, Kind of diving in, uh, to the sustainable mindset audit, you know, uh, in lay per laypersons terms, what does, what does that actually mean? Um, you know, how is that, how is that?

No, go ahead. So far. So we are doing, we are starting at bespoke and I think ultimately wanna create the parameters. So it is very much, um, giving a star system over to people. It's, it's the way that in educational when it comes to children, it's like you get your gold star, like you get your, your five star audit based on.

On, you know, like certain parameters. So we looked into certain parameters and we, we, we, we called them five Ps. So it's the, the piece to living your best lives. So, because people obviously wanna give something tangible, so we are not gonna see like how much you're gonna do it, but we're gonna look into people, place, product.

Packaging and PR and communication, and we're gonna look in like, and so much we have those as a consultancy, a bespoke ordered with individual companies. We're gonna start with a restaurant, a fashion brand, and events, and we're gonna base those parameters on and actually create something that maybe.

Down the line in two years time, people can then check and self-order themself how they fitted. But in order to get the ratings, we, we would have to approve them. So we are looking towards being an accredited trust mark in that way. Yeah, well, exactly. I mean, so basically the whole idea is like to reshape the perception of sustainability and more importantly, we shape the KPIs around that topic.

Because at the moment it's. Fancy buzzwords like carbon footprint, uh, and a carbon offsetting and much, much more than everyone hears. Uh, you need to tick those boxes for your shareholder reports, but no one really understands and no one wants to understand. Again, if I go out to a restaurant or I buy, I mean, this is just like, It, it's just another buzzword.

So I think the big, so I think that's what we're trying to get away there is, cause obviously there's all the B Corps and all the equivalent, but however, again, being a little bit cynical, obviously a about it, um, it's a tick boxing exercise. It's partly devalued because, I mean, I've overheard enough conversations where accountants are like, oh, let's put another bin here to get another five points kind of.

So, uh, it lost its value. It's very elitist just because of the price tag. Um, and it's, it's, it's just a very tedious, uh, process in that sense. Um, and it focuses on like, well, because of the thick boxing exercise, by default, it's just more like what you're doing right or wrong kind of thing. Whereas I think that's not.

Or like that's why we set up through that. Like it's not the right angle. It's more the, it's about like how much awareness are you spreading with your actions. So like something more tangible. So I like, almost like from a rating perspective, it doesn't matter if you have the worst supply chain, everything's wrapped in plastic, however you are, let's say after an, you are using the orange peel to do marmalade from.

You're growing bees on the roof of your garden, you are putting on a scarf, forcing your employees to wear a scarf, uh, uh, once a week to then, uh, in, uh, decrease temperature by two degrees. So it's about like what. The KPI needs to be like, how many people have you touched, touched with, with the, with the actions.

And there again, we're not there. It would be a little bit too, too ambitious, too arrogant to say, oh, we want, we're gonna change the world and change behaviors. Um, the, the final goal is a, create a touchpoint more and more than anything. So, Let's say with, with my, with the, with the, the product that I, that I have at Strudels, like let's say pasta straw.

So kind of like back to Caroline's point earlier, you can still go get drunk but do it sustainably. So kinda like it's that fun aspect. However, if you imagine a table of six two get served the pasta straw, the other four gonna talk about it, and then it's a touch point. And then taking the actual seat, anal analogy of like, we can't influence maybe two months, five months, 10 months, 10 years from now, something will.

But like, at least we plant that touchpoint. However, what we want is conscious consumerism. I e I don't mind if you still buy the plastic bottle as long as you're doing it consciously. Cause I don't know what your circumstances are. You're super thirsty, not money. So it, it's, it's that, it's exactly like just shifting with like by someone getting this through batch it needs.

To become a consumer choice to go there. Here in the UK we have a thing called a hygiene rating, which every, um, business needs to display. It's under zero to five. It's obviously more looks at like what our, how clean your kitchen is, but every business has that on their door. So the idea is like at the door, there will be a strudels batch rating eventually, um, and then it becomes a consumer choice, but it, it emphasize.

It can, so basically a restaurant can have a hygiene rating, rating of one kind of thing, but it's can have a five star rating on on str. So yeah, probably will be because very likely. But it's a bit permeating that as well. It's like, so the people integral, it's like, okay, you can save a lot of money by term turning your thermostat down.

But if you're just doing this top heavy, like a lot of companies are doing, , but then use it as well and again in infecting your, your staff with that positive message. Infecting is a negative word it, but enabling them as well and create, shifting from an anthropological point of view, the, the mindset as well.

It takes two weeks to change habitus. So I think that's really interesting to that positive reinforcement. And then maybe let's have that in winter on a Friday. You have a knit. So like, like a knitty, like it's a kind of a, you know, like a staff bonding moment. Everyone knits the scarf together and then every Friday then the staff chooses to wear a lovely scarf and then you turn the thermostat down.

Then it doesn't feel like, oh, they're just pretending to be green. They're greenwashing this year just to put the thermostat down, because then I must, then I feel. More offend as as as part of the company and I would almost put my paper into the wrong bin because I'm so annoyed with that whole structure of it's so top heavy.

So I think it has to be permeating the company culture. Yeah. I think that's what we are highlighting and looking at. Yeah, and I think we forgot probably the most important points of a, like the batch itself from a value perspective. It is a wait for a business or event or whatever to celebr. They're small changes they're making.

Yeah. So hence kind of the order like Yeah. Using the five piece that Caroline mentioned, it's, we're looking at what you're doing right. I is like, this is the small changes you're making already, so let's celebrate those. Cause as I said earlier, especially, I mean from my kind of like product like, like someone like the Marriott in the uk, I mean there's like specifically one branch, which.

Hardcore sustainable, however they married, can't talk about it. Um, cause it's only one branch, they can't roll it out. So it's, it's a little bit of a disconnect. Um, so obviously, hence like what the, so we are looking at what some, what someone's doing, right? And then it's all those suggestions that, uh, Caroline mentioned, like to bring that into, into a company as, as the report.

Yeah. And I think it's as, as suggesting that as well. So we have. Things. It's like the idea of letting people have their own coffee cup. It's really obvious. A lot of people have that already, but let's make that a conscious choice. So, okay, you have a B, everyone has a budget to buy their own coffee cup.

Yeah, let's celebrate that. Rather than just skipping, okay, we are not gonna have any more paper and everyone has to bring it in. So a lot of that is communication and I think the tonality as well over it. So it's like the idea, because I think it is very close to. The idea of, um, yeah, like I think wellbeing and mindfulness because I think a lot of companies, it is really interesting.

They have a lot of budget as well for team bonding efforts. So, but I think it's really interesting that nowadays that a company has to look into scrapping that so they can almost tap into the sustainability pot. And, and, and almost kind of roll out two in one. And I think when it comes to the team bonding and wellbeing and sustainable and it's all integral.

Yeah. So they fully immerse themselves in the sustainability and then, then everyone believes in that. And I think people are then less disenfranchised because I think a lot of the sustainable, uh, When it comes to, uh, it's, it's so top heavy. Even the companies and are forced to have the E s G rating, it feels top heavy and it, it, it feels like you're disenfranchised rather than if you really, truly feel a belief in it, I think then it's, and it's a happy factor rather than going like, oh, I have to do this.

It's like, I'm meant to do this. I can have fun, but then I have to offset. It's, it's not about the, that's what I'm trying to say with that Jude Christian thing. It's like the idea of being naughty. I have sin and then I have to go. Some sort of somewhere else. When you say top heavy, what, what do you mean by topheavy?

Can you, can you elaborate a little bit on that? Well, it's legislated, I think like a lot of that is leg. So in London for instance, you can't drive with certain cars into, into the, into the city center. So there is the low emission zone is expanding. Companies are forced to spend a certain amount on their sustainability rating, but it, it, it, it feels forced.

And I think again, like by consumers are forcing and, and, and finding that out. But I think the exciting thing that is happening that we all have agency and I think the staff and the consumers have agency and that's quite. Quite good, but quite threatening for big companies. So I think if you, if you're integrating our consumers and, and people who work for the company, it's less top-heavy.

So it's permeates every aspect of, of it. So it's, it's true joy, because I think if you tell me to smile and someone says like, go cheer up, smile, but gimme a reason to smile. Then I smile. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yes. Absolutely. and I think what's also in addition to this badge, which is really exciting to me, is also the ecosystem that you're building to support that.

Correct. Yeah. So basically it's about like eventually, yeah, there is an app, something, it becomes a consumer choice. Cause at the moment, again, those certifications, this celebration is only accessible to people who can pay for it. Uh, whereas again, there, yes, at the moment we have, cause we have to start obviously with like a more small consultancy, but there, there is very.

Soon there will be a self-certified model cuz it's about like all those small core, your, your whatever shop at the corner, your restaurant at the corner. It's about giving them a platform. Um, that's basically allows them to celebrate those small changes. So, um, yeah and those culture and also like as you say like that, then it will set examples cuz again, like maybe someone's doing right and creating that infrastructure ecosystem around it also means there will be a lot of best practices cuz why reinvent the wheel someone else has done.

Um, and yeah, I mean, that's the big value add, uh, on the back of that as well. Yeah, yeah. But we looked a lot as well and to, you know, like when it comes to modern approaches to happiness and um, uh, and, and lifestyle. So I think that's really interesting. So the idea of manifest manifesting and the positive manifesting of, of ideas.

So it's, it's almost like manifesting sustainability in your daily life. And I think it's almost giving people. , that's what we stand for. But giving people that approach is the, yeah, let's manifest and let's journal in that way. And I think let's reflect on that in a positive way and implement those changes.

Yeah. Well it's inspiring. So I mean, again, everything we're doing, like it's about like how, how can a company internally or like whoever's leading it, inspire how easy and fun sustainability can be, but then also push that to the outside world in that sense. Like, look, this, it's as as simple as. An example X, Y, Z.

And look, he or she is doing it. Yes. Cause I mean, these small changes are the ones that have compounding effects over time. Right. Um, and well to break with that current stereotype that they don't, right? I mean, everyone says it so about like millions of people doing sustainability, imperfectly ra of you doing it perfectly.

It's just basically embracing and giving this a face. And, but, but it's more like, so the idea is like that, like the, the Mr. Strudels character. Becomes that symbol of fun, sustainability. It's so fun. Thank you. That he appears on fashion items and whatnot. So, I mean, so it becomes basically a symbol. Mm-hmm.

So, cause again, it's a joy factor. You wanna, uh, say like, showcase you sustainable so it's not just, uh, yeah, basically like, just take away the whole seriousness. Cause I mean, unfortunately, That, that whole topic and the icons I mentioned earlier, like breta, David, and like everything in that space, every communication, um, is all very serious.

Yeah. And, and shaming. I think. I think that's, but I think if, if you do it in a truly, and it's an afterthought, so it's like either they are, they're, they're looming over us saying that they're better, and then people say, actually they're not that good. So it's like you have that really silly conversation because as soon as you're telling.

That I should change something. I be, I'm on the defensive. So I think if it's truly immersive, if, if I'm just doing this and I have interesting touchpoints, but then it allows me to immerse myself in the mindset of it as well. Yeah. So if I have five different touchpoints, then I'm fully reminded of the fun factor of it and I have, if I have those in all my production values as a company, as I have at an event spaces as well, I have those at, at five different things, then I don't want to.

Disposable coffee cup. It's like almost, it feels really nice, but it's, it's a bit, and I think it is the cynicism that's growing as well. The idea of like, everyone is selling me the disposable coffee cup and the bag for life. I have 500 bags for all my future life. It's like, but obviously it's, again, it works, but it's like, it's, it's like let's create a different way.

Yeah. But I think it's like, let's make it more fun to, to bring your own back in. And I think there is something about that. It's like, it's still. It's we, we are so in love with buying the new, and I think it's just more like if it's celebrated that you don't have it, but we are allowing people. To almost broadcast that more and kind of trying to find the, yeah, because you feel a bit stingy so far.

It's like bringing your own back and it's like the idea of their own lunch. And I think there is definitely, so we're trying to have gamification. Yeah, gamification. So it's more fun. And I think it's because everyone is talking about gamification and immersiveness, but I think when it comes to sustainability, it's still very much stuck in.

Doom and gloom and shameful way. Yeah. So we're just trying to drag it out there and make, make it as fun as, as, as and, and at the same time for the big companies, there is a little bit of what I mentioned earlier, like we're giving them a little bit of a halo effect. So what I mentioned earlier, like, I mean like why can't the big guys talk about the small changes?

Cuz they're gonna get confronted with all the haters about everything they're doing wrong. So suddenly I think we're, well it's a very theological discussion and obviously like it's not for everyone to have, but it's gonna be, Look, I mean, it's the right mindset and for those of those reasons it's there.

So, so kind of like, well not hiding behind Arus Patch, but it is some form of a halo effect that's kind of like, well, you can defend yourself with it as well. I think that's quite an important piece as well to kind of bring those, uh, small changes up. But obviously, yeah, it will naturally, like, well, especially big companies are quite, uh, open to lots of conversations, right?

Like, Uh, so our listeners who are not familiar with the Mr. Strudel or the, the straw charact, can you describe it a little bit? Cause I was really, I was just really struck by, uh, its lightness. Um, it's, it's re like the tonality. Uh, you know, I just, it really, um, immediately. Kind of warmed my heart when I saw it.

Uh, you know, and then now that's permeating into the badge. So for our listeners who, um, are gonna hopefully clamor to go have a look, but in the meantime, can you describe it a little bit? I'm biased, so better you describe it as a third party . I thing is like, it's again, talking about the it, yeah. It's, it's like, I think it comes from the gamification.

It's just someone giving you a thumbs up, uh, with big eyes looking at you. It's not green, it's, it's bright yellow. It's again, that life affirming bright yellow with a little bow tie. And that's Mr. Mr. Stu. Look at the shape of a straw. Is that, Um, well, originally yes, but with the whole point is like he's, yeah, it's basically taken and that's why originally Cause obviously I was the first product and ideally, like, people will never remember that.

Yeah. Or like, so yeah. He's just basically like a, a character as, as such, and that's what, like putting that smile on everyone's face. But then also the whole idea is like, he's very easily adaptable. So, I mean, I know like as kids at least growing up, you could, some. You could sometimes buy those cut out dresses and then put them on.

Uh, so technically like the idea is like that. I dunno, your football top, your company colors, I know blue and white or whatever. Uh, not . So like you, you dress them with a scarf for that color. So again, once you have the badge, you obviously have access to marketing assets. So use him as a spokesperson. So suddenly per personify him, you can put a logo on his hat.

So, He's there. Like the prime objective Yes. Is like to create that smile on everyone's face. I mean, I had toddlers who don't speak at events, like Point, point their fingers on, on them. Um, so it's that effect. But also he's that moldable to become your spokesperson, um, in whatever way cuz you can dress him in whatever you want.

We, I mean if you look at the Instagram, obviously for the holidays we had a Harry Potter str like Louis Armstrong, strel like Godfather Strudels. I. Again, it's, uh, cause we can, but then again, he can also be as serious. But it's more, more like, you know, like on a, if you, if you think it's a personal manifestation, it's a personal, yeah.

Correct. So I think it's like, it's humanizing. So rather than just, okay, it's a, it's a thing rather than like, I don't know, there's so many different trust marks that are just things. So I think it's more like, That is Mr. Strudels is there for you. Like it's, it was like the Mr. Man series I think that you had in your case, like Mr.

Mrs. Happy, like Miss Mr. Think so it's a mister who kind of tells you what, like just helps you along or just approve. Yeah. So I think it's just like a little approval rating and I think there's something chart like of someone giving you the thumbs up. It's like you're doing okay. It's like, well, you're doing everything you can do.

So cute. It's so cute. I'm just now being inclusive. There is kids and he has a Mrs. Fr as well, and the, the family's gonna grow. And somehow you used the one who developed. But I think the straw dynamic, traveling dynamic, we need a straw. Yeah, we don't need a straw, but I think straw makes, makes life more fun or drinking it, or the eggs of drinking something more fun.

So it's interestingly because my initial reaction, I have to say, so to the passage, I was like, well, why? Why do we have to have this straw? But. For me, it's a really good symbolism and expression of the whole idea of like, I still wanna drive a car. We'll have fun, but then I have an electric car. My electric car dries and does, gives me more pleasure than any other car.

Now I'm talking about it all the time. I am literally like everyone sees how much fun I have with my electric car to become, again, like someone who broadcast, broadcasted, of course. Yet we have to think, do we still need a kind of first place, but. There are certain things we can't reinvent the wheel. Yeah.

And of course, it's like stepping back of there are certain things that are integral and, and it is a bit like taking, taking the joy of drinking with a straw away from, from future generations. I guess we can do it differently or, but it's again, a symbolism about having happy in your, like having the happiness.

In certain actions, but then making that count and having a mindfulness and a, and awareness of, of course I can make a past, it's a pasta straw. Or, or that, but I think it's a really nice expression of that. Yeah. In the same way that, let's put the thermostat down, but let's make that every Friday that everyone comes in their favorite jumper, or let's have that communal knitting.

Season for everyone together, and then we make a conscious choice over that rather than go like, oh, and you keep on saying like, oh, it's really cold and we have to save money. It's like, yes, but it's not just about that. And I think it's about embracing it fully. And I think that's why I keep on coming back to that immersiveness.

It's like that because it's so overused these days. But I think when you immerse yourself fully in it, they're not just afterthoughts or touchpoints. You're fully living that dream. And I think then, then you become a real. Arbiter for, for change and sustainability. There feels like there's a lot of thread of like, connecting to other people.

Um, it feels very community, you know, like to cultivate community. Um, it, yeah, it feels like it's injecting that into. Maybe scenarios where it's been missing potentially. Yeah. Or there's a craving for it. Um, you know, well, it's a move. It's a move. So basically like we're try, it's a movement. It's arus movement, kinda like that I've been trying to do from day one.

The products were just like the manifestation of it. Cuz I needed obviously to build credibility for the idea and like the, the, the batch. If you even go back to my initial like, uh, first, first presentation, I was always. But I mean, I couldn't do it. And they, one was like, there's no, no, no belief. So I mean, again, the, uh, the a, the, the batch is totally, that's why also it's totally independent of the, you don't have to use the product.

Right, right. Uh, this is just like examples of like how easy it can be, like a straw, like edible couple and, and whatnot. Uh, but it, it's, it's ha it's that movement. It's a, it's a mindset. It's a, hence also like if the, the character is on, on some fashion items, it's just, you're part of something. It's that like, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a fam it's a family feeling that's being created.

Hence obviously all this sustainability immersion and like all that fun, uh, like could all, it's all that right terminology that goes with that whole family movement feeling. Mm-hmm. free, freeing it of political. Political movement as well. And I think it's like the gamification of just making something that you can live personally, but that can be applied to companies as well.

So, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, we were all the political motive of vifa vendetta aside and like the mask, but like, I mean, technically like, well at some point, cuz when I sell the, the, the past straws, I mean the, the S'S character has googly eyes. Uh, so for example, the, the like even let's say someone. Like have an in inside there, like some eyes or, or glasses or whatnot that look like that.

So it's, it bec there is some form of like, even like a big flash mob of people identifying themselves that can look like Mr. Sch. He has a top hat as well. So, I mean, when I, when I go out doing events, I normally wear my top hat, uh, with it. But it's, it's just that it identification. Um, uh, yeah, I mean back, like here in the uk like.

For pregnant. Uh, if you're pregnant you can get on the tube like a batch called baby on board. Yeah. So it's kinda like strudels on board. So it's just like having some form of bat or like a lot of people wear the e sg like pin on. Yeah. So, and it's Aer way to express your . It's like the idea, like you, you on the mindset you're doing that, you're not being shamed about it, but you're trying your best in that happy way.

But I think that is a really important. . I think from a psychological point of view, it's, it's the, the one, the one point that will make us be more sustainable as well. Yeah. And I can identify it in a positive way, but these are all touchpoints and communication points I can relate to as well. Yeah. Rather than being shamed into doing that.

And I think people are incredibly disenfranchised, annoyed, very, it's very uncertain with the future. And this the idea of like looking at all. Horrific, uh, you know, like, um, you know, like environmental events as well. It's like, what can I do? Is it worth it? Is it not all too late? It's not too late. It's like the idea, let's just have fun and try to do our best.

And I think in that way it's, it's, it's very interesting. It's like the idea of now, that's why I like that childlike approach as well. And, and you know, like having, The star rating system. It's like, you know, when you try to look at, I don't know, a Shakespeare book and you look at a little child trying to learn to read, of course you don't get there now, but at some point you have to start with your ABCs.

Yeah. And I think before you know it, you're reading Shakespeare. So it's, it's, it's like those little baby steps, but baby steps towards it. And I think if you truly just. Positive reinforcement through minor steps continuously. So you truly change your daily habits and you have that true immersion on a daily basis.

Yeah. And it permeates your company culture, your structure, and anything you do in your five PPPs. Yeah. And it's like in your production and everything. Then I think it, you give agency as well to your staff to suggest is like, actually you know what? The way we are doing. Because everyone has this toles top hat on all the time.

Yeah. It's like the idea, maybe we could save something with that, maybe we can do that. So you have a constant integral E S G rating by everyone. Everyone who is trying to pull on the same string to save you money and to be more sustainable. So I think like, so that's actually from a business point of view, much better rather than, yeah.

So every single staff, every single cleaner who works for your company will be tru. Well, exactly. Like in invested in in sustainability. Yeah. And the scale. I mean, there is, there is an economical argument for being sustainable. I mean, now more than ever when everyone's watching their pockets. But I mean, again, using the product examples, um, I mean, if you're doing an event for 10,000 people, washing glasses, hiring the staff, uh, a there is, there's the stop shortages.

Plus it's a lot of like effort, especially if you have a small kitchen. Um, again, all the bust word, carbon footprint and everything conversational aside, using kind of edible cups like, uh, then they, they get eaten. The, the awareness you spread through that and the operational, it solves everything. You can just eat or like chuck them in the bin or like people eat them.

So it's just like, there is lots of savings on the back of that, and especially as Karen said, suddenly like all. Like out of your, whatever, 10 employees, five are in that mindset, they're gonna save you money. So it, there, there is, there's that art. So it's not just like a nice, uh, media buzzword. Yeah. But it's, it's like, it has, it has, um, literally, yeah.

Taxability, sustainability, sustainable effects for your business, uh, and the world, uh, but done in a very different, uh, approach, you know? Yeah. Which is, uh, yeah, as you mentioned, like. The modern approaches to happiness or. You know, behavioral science, you know, how we operate, what motivates us, what actually creates sustainable habit change.

Um, we're sort of, it sounds like you're, you are really, uh, pulling on all those levers, uh, you know, um, for, you know, for good, for, for a good, um, for the good of our planet, for the good of us, but without that sort of preachy, um, you know, wagging fingers, um, tonality, which is really exciting. So with that said, uh, what's the best way for people to get in touch and to find out more?

Probably via, via Instagram, via our website, via LinkedIn. I think at the moment we are just really looking off trying to strudel as many companies as possible just to find the right, uh, parameters as well, I think for us, and I think for them as well, just to see how can we implement more and come up with a database.

So far we have like lots of fun suggestions of what to do towards different company structures, you know. Like dialing down the thermostat, but as well how to communicate that in the right way. Yeah. Again, so it's like giving you the full package and so, so that's it. Get in contact with us at the moment.

We are obviously excited to, to strudel as many people as possible. Um, yeah. And so, yeah, yeah. Anything from brands, events, uh, services, products itself. So again, It's, uh, all those channels are open to us. That's so exciting. I love, like everyone has a strudels top hat on all the time. Yeah. I have so many t-shirt quotes right now.

I don't need more t-shirts. I don't need more bags, but I just, I have, there's so many that have populated throughout our conversation, um, in just such a short space of time, so I'm so excited. Thank you for your time and. Listeners, as always, I'll have all the references in the show notes. So do get in touch with Caroline, Maxine, and, um, also really appreciate all your comments and your connections, uh, because you really do, uh, inspire the conversations that we have in the 📍 future.

So for now, thank you for listening and I'm your host Sura Al-Naimi.

Thank you. Thank you.